Suicide Prevention Archives

Normalize It Forward - Marc Lehman | Jake Miskin | Mental Wellness

Shattered Silence: A Filmmaker’s Courageous Mission For Mental Wellness With Jake Miskin

October 14, 2025August 6, 2025

Ever wondered how personal tragedy can ignite a powerful movement for change? Join us as we welcome Jake Miskin, the visionary screenwriter and producer behind the critically acclaimed film, Shattered Ice. Inspired by the heartbreaking loss of classmates to suicide during his own youth, Jake channeled his grief into a compelling narrative that tackles the unspoken complexities of mental health and community healing. In this profound conversation, Jake shares the deeply personal journey that led to Shattered Ice, a film designed to spark crucial dialogue, especially among young adults and athletes. Discover how storytelling can be a powerful tool for connection and why breaking the silence around mental health is more vital now than ever before.

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Shattered Silence: A Filmmaker’s Courageous Mission For Mental Wellness With Jake Miskin

I am so excited to welcome to the show, Jake Miskin. Jake, how are you, sir?

I am good. Thank you for having me.

Thanks for being here, Jake. Jake is a Screenwriter and Producer, best known for his debut film, Shattered Ice. Born and raised in Needham, Mass., Miskin attended Needham High School, where he experienced firsthand the tragic loss of multiple classmates to suicide during his teenage years. These personal experiences deeply influenced his decision to create Shattered Ice, a film that delves into the complexity of grief, mental health, and community resilience.

Shattered Ice premiered at the Sedona International Film Festival and won the Most Impactful Film award. Through Shattered Ice, Jake Miskin seeks to break the silence surrounding mental health issues, particularly among young adults and young athletes, and to inspire communities to engage in a meaningful dialogue that fosters healing and support. Jake, welcome in. How are you?

I am good. What an intro that was. Thank you.

I’m excited to hear about it. It’s so funny, whenever I read intros, everybody responds the same way. They’re like, “Is that me?”

I was like, “I don’t know if that was me they’re talking about.”

Why don’t we just jump in? Tell us a little bit about Shattered Ice, how it came about, and obviously, how we can view it.

Normalizing Mental Health Conversations Through The Power Of Storytelling

Yeah. Shattered Ice is a feature film. It’s about 100 minutes. It’s about the impact of losing someone to suicide at a young age in the conversations that young men, young boys in particular, are trying to navigate or questioning or wondering how to have these conversations. The journey it takes that it takes a village and a community to come together to realize communication really hopes that it normalizes the conversation. Shattered Ice uses hockey as the way of entertaining the film and the audience. We truly believe that storytelling could heal and again, normalize the conversation.

I love the concept. You guys, in many ways, you’re doing similar things to normalize it forward, just bringing topics out around mental health and wellness that are hard to talk about. Let’s face it, even the word suicide, people don’t like using that word. People don’t like talking about the topic. It’s one of those things that’s out there in our community, and we don’t have a choice whether we address it or we don’t address it. It’s still out there in our community. Let me go back for a minute, because your inspiration around this sounds like it had a lot to do with your own growth as a youngster in Needham. Tell us a little bit about that, Jake.

Personal Inspiration & The Avoidance Of “Why” In Grief

Yeah, when I was in high school, we lost multiple students to suicide, classmates of ours in the community and everything. There was just a real dark cloud over that time. Even after graduation, there was multiple deaths after that as well. It really hit our family hard, and me, personally. Writing this really helped with my grieving process and creating stories and characters and a world where this could be told. Friday Night Lights, the show, was a big inspiration as well of how deep they highlighted a community, and that’s what I want to do with hockey and highlighting my experiences and conversations that I was trying to have growing up.

Pay attention to those around you. Check in with everyone and have real, meaningful conversations. Share on X

Yeah. I’m, first of all, so sorry for all of the losses you endured. It sounds like your community was hit really in a severe fashion, and I can only imagine. One loss is one thing. Multiple losses, there’s that ripple effect. As a therapist, I’ve been around this so much, and when I hear about a loss on a college campus, for example, my first thought beyond what a horrible tragedy it is, is what about that ripple effect? Who else has this touched that we don’t know about?

Sometimes, students will share with me, and it doesn’t even matter if they know the person. It’s a contemporary. It’s a type of loss that just hits a person in a different way than, say, a car accident or any other type of loss. I can only imagine how that must have hit your community, it sounds like, in a very deep, long, sizable way.

The question that everyone always ask is why. Through Shattered Ice, I never wanted to touch upon a reason or anything, and I made sure that this story doesn’t touch upon that, because you never know. As soon as you put a reason on it, then audience members will be like, “That’s not my friend or my daughter, or my son or my teammate.” Make sure that you pay attention to everyone and make sure you check in on everyone, and you actually have deep conversations. It’s okay to have those conversations and don’t feel like my feelings don’t matter and that people don’t care when I’m telling someone else.

Yeah, it’s huge. I think as men, we have particular difficulty doing that, but I love your message, and I couldn’t agree with it more. Just finding the words, pushing yourself to just say, “Are you alright? I’m really concerned about you. Even if you’re awkward, even if it doesn’t come off eloquent, even if you don’t want to, believe me, it’s way worse on the other side when someone has taken their own life.

Maybe it’s someone saying, “I need help. I’m having these thoughts as well.” Whoever you tell, it’s okay.

Jake, thank you so much for putting this project together, because I think that message right there that you just touched on, for so many, when they watch something like this and they walk away with that message, that could be a difference maker for a lot of people.

As you said in the intro, we had our premier out in Sedona, 2,500 miles away from how I wrote this film and the world it’s in. Usually, at these festivals, you have a Q&A afterwards, and it’s usually all about the filmmakers and the cast and audience members wanted to find out about their stories. Instead, the room was lifted and people wanted to share their own story and how they related to a character, and how the feelings that were brought out on screen is how they were feeling. It truly was incredible. One of the actors turned to me and said, “Mission accomplished.” This is starting a conversation that people are relating to it, unfortunately, but it’s good that Shattered Ice is being a tool to help spark that.

It’s resonating. I’ll give a shout out to my good friend, Eric, who runs a great organization called Same here Global.

I know him as well. Eric’s awesome.

He talks a lot about 5 and 5, and the stat out there of 1 in 5 people have mental health issues, and how really, all 5 of us, 5 and 5, we’re all susceptible. When a person thinks, “Not me,” or, “Not my kid,” or, “Not my partner,” that’s when they let their guard down. I truly believe that we all have life circumstances, that if they add up in the wrong way, we’re all susceptible to real struggles. Looking out for your friends, looking out for your siblings, looking out for your family members, looking out for your coworkers. Looking out for people. I think it’s our job in many ways.

Let me ask, I think that the topic of mental health is so broad and, as you were mentioning with regards to Shattered Ice, with Normalize It Forward, I noticed as I started having show after show, people began asking me more and more questions. They began sharing more and more about their own mental health, whether it was anxiety or whether it was depression or eating disorders or bipolar disorder.

So many people out there don’t have an actual diagnosis. They just feel terrible or they’re inundated with worry and to the point where their life is sometimes unmanageable. I find that when people share those stories, they share with other individuals and they find, “A lot of people out there are suffering.” Statistically, a lot of people out there are suffering.

One of the large populations that I work with on a regular basis is college students. The mental health of college students is awful. It’s moving in the wrong direction. Anxieties are up and depression is up. Unfortunately, the suicide rate is way up. You’ve been entrenched with this project and this topic, so I just wanted to ask your thoughts on maybe why. What do you think?

The Negative Impact Of The “Chase” & Social Media On Mental Health

The way that you said that as well, this has been an eleven-year journey creating this film, and the people that I’ve talked to are shared what I’m doing, because without the whole community coming together and making this happen, listening to stories, this movie would never been told, and the story would never been told.

Throughout that journey, it’s the same thing with you. People, for some reason, talking about a movie or a story, it brings down the guard. They ended up sharing more with them, with their own life with me than they haven’t done before previously. I get what you’re saying with that, when people are asking you more questions and all that, but in the reason why, honestly, I don’t know. It could be a lot of factors with how fast times are moving now.

I know a lot of people just throw up social media as a thing, but that truly is a factor with having a device in your hand at all times. The worry of you’re falling behind. There’s a quote in the movie that the father who lost his son says, “The hardest thing is that you always feel like you’re falling behind the village, that people are moving faster than you are, so your anxiety builds up, or your worries build up, and you’re not fulfilling what you’re supposed to be fulfilling.”

I think it’s just comes with how fast our life is moving now, how everything is connected. We’re feeling even sometimes more alone than usual. Sometimes, you’re trying to get in contact with your mom or your dad or your sibling, but it takes a day or two to call the person back because your life is so busy. I think it’s just a multiple of factors, especially with college students and the majority of the life they’ve been living in.

In a world that’s more connected than ever, life moves so fast that we often end up feeling more alone. Share on X

Yeah, it’s an interesting point, Jake, and I want to expand on it for a moment because it’s I think this will resonate a lot with my audience. There seems to be this chase. There’s this chase for something. I’m not even sure what it is. I think people think it’s happiness. I’m not sure it is. I watch young people chasing getting into a certain school, getting a certain grade, getting a girl to date them, getting a certain job. It’s funny. When you watch someone do that and they attain what they’re looking to attain, you would think that they would savor that moment and enjoy what they’ve achieved. Nine times out of ten, they’re onto the next thing.

I’m guilty of that, too, through this whole process. A lot of people have asked me if I’ve taken a moment to enjoy this moment. I’m always thinking about the next thing because I don’t want to fall behind. You truly do have to take the moment and take in what is actually happening with you on that day or that week and decompress it all, too.

No doubt. I found myself saying that a lot to young people when they’re approaching graduation, high school or college, and really stopping for a moment and just recognizing what they’ve done. This is a huge achievement. For so many kids, they’re just onto that next item. I think if there’s one thing, maybe we can, as adults, try to preach a little bit even through our own actions more as role models is trying to be in the moment.

Try to recognize, “I’m having a cool conversation with a cool guy tonight. This feels great.” Being able to recognize if we help one person through our conversation tonight, that’s one more person out there that has received some assistance from our conversation. I will say this. I’m impressed continually how open young people are in terms of talking about mental health.

I will say that’s a huge difference. A lot more younger people are open to talking about it, which is incredible.

I think movies like Shattered Ice, you put that out, kids view it, and all of a sudden, as you said, their guard is down and they’re able to talk about things that they wouldn’t have chosen to talk about, but they’re talking about it now, which is great.

That’s what I really think narrative storytelling and seeing it on a screen or a film, I think there’s a lot more. Ted Lasso is a great example. Shrinking is a great example. Adolescents that just happened on Netflix is big show. It’s how storytelling really sparks the conversation in people, because getting thrown numbers in your face can sometimes even be harder to look at or a documentary where you know it’s a real story.

Sometimes, it’s harder to take in and you shut down more because you don’t want to be a statistic or that person on that’s telling you a real story back. When it’s a fictional character, you can relate to a character, and you have that comedy and that real heaviness. My friends and I are talking about Ted Lasso all the time and his struggles and relate and you’re relating to it, or all the character arcs of Shrinking and how they all have real issues, but they use comedy as a way to highlight them. It’s just like any other family out there that are going through this.

Shrinking, in particular, was written brilliantly. They dealt with some really challenging topics, and they did that through exactly what you just said. Really remarkable. I highly respect your field in that. It’s obviously not something I do. I think it is a really interesting vehicle and way for people to be exposed to topics and as you said talk about them, which is really remarkable.

Still be entertained by it too because that’s the other thing with the stigma, when you say the word suicide, you instantly you turn away or like, “This is going to be a heavy topic,” but like you said, normalize it so it’s like you are able to talk about it and have the conversation.

Tell us, Jake, if people want to view Shattered Ice, how do they get a hold of it?

Yeah, so right now, we’re doing the film festival circuit, so we submit to all the film festivals across the country. We’ve gone into Sedona and we just announced that we got into the Berkshire International Film Festivals out in Massachusetts.

Congratulations. That’s great.

That’ll be happening in May 2025. We have a couple more festivals that we can’t announce yet. That would be in 2025. We’ll be doing private screenings throughout New England, partnering with organizations and hosting screenings with them, and then also doing a high school and college tour. We’re going on 10 to 12 campuses across New England to show the movie, have a Q&A afterwards, have a panel, and basically have the conversation that we’re having now, how storytelling is important. Obviously, our audience is student athletes, and broader into the whole community at the school. That’s our goal for 2025, our social impact campaign, and then hopefully, it’s in theaters ne nationwide in 2026, and you are watching it on Netflix or a streaming.

I know you’re in the middle of that process, so good luck with the rest of the year. I’m really excited for you guys and certainly, anything we can do in Normalize It Forward, or any of our socials to advertise for you, we’d like to help in any way we can. Going back to what you mentioned about athletes, and honestly, I meant to ask you this earlier but wanted just to touch on this.

Athletes in particular, they’re an interesting topic, an interesting group of people in that I find that when I’ve worked with athletes over the years, they have not only a persona to maintain, but there’s also certainly, in particular in sports, there’s also a, “I’m not going to tell my coach I’m struggling because I’m going to get playing time cut,” or, “I’m going to have this, I’m going to have that.” Without knowing much about the movie itself, I’m curious just your thoughts on athletics and how mental health and wellness intersects with that topic.

Sports As A Vehicle For Mental Health Dialogue

It’s great that you brought that up because the biggest reasons why I used hockey as the driving vehicle in Shattered Ice and the world that I want to build is create more stories using sport as that vehicle and talking point because sport is when athletes receive their first obstacle, their loss, their first loss, maybe their first friendship, their first win, their ups and down is a rollercoaster. Their journey in sport really brings out that innocence in people and their natural environment that they want to be in.

Unfortunately, on the mental health side of things, it’s right away stigmatized that these athletes have such a perfect world because you know who is struggling or who is the premier athlete right away. You get put into this box and you feel like the person who’s the star athlete is okay all the time because they’re performing well.

The person who’s either not playing as much, they’re okay. They must be hurting, they must be frustrated, annoyed. All of them need to be open with each other in such a big world that it doesn’t matter what sport you’re playing. There are some sports that are more in your face and you feel, but even individual sports, you’re so alone all the time.

Just like with Jarren Duran on the Red Sox, you’re sitting out in the outfield for nine innings straight by yourself and you’re talking to yourself. I’m so happy you opened up about his struggles. A lot of athletes do that. I truly think sports is a perfect avenue where people are related because even as kids, like I said, where you might have had your first heartbreak, your first loss, your first struggle, or your first love in your first friendship, or your first coach, your first mentor. There’s a lot of intersection going on.

Sports are a powerful avenue for connection. As kids, many of us experienced our first heartbreak, loss, struggle, love, friendship, coach, or mentor through sports. There’s so much intersection in those moments. Share on X

It’s interesting because I pay attention to when things like those stories break like the Duran story, I heard reactions to it. I can’t believe that happened to him as though he’s inhuman. I hear that also in the entertainment world, musicians. When musicians cancel legs of their tour because they’re having mental health issues, I can’t believe that happened to them. That notion of we’re all human beings and we’re all susceptible. We all have things that happen and we all have our own journey.

For me, I would like, as much as possible, for young people to understand, it doesn’t really matter who you are. It doesn’t matter how much you make for a salary, who you married to, or what you do for a living. Everybody has things that they struggle with from time to time, and even Red Sox players and musicians. I think that message is really important for young people to understand.

I like how you’ve done what you’ve done with Shattered Ice. I think it really allows for the topic to resonate with people, I’m sure, on a number of different levels. I can’t compliment you enough about what you’ve put together here and how hard you’ve worked on this. Again, kudos to you, guys. Good luck with the rest of the journey. Jake, if I can put you on the hot seat just for a moment and ask. In Normalize It Forward, we typically ask all of our guests to nominate a friend, a coworker, a relative, someone that you know who might be helpful for us to interview next on the show. Any thoughts?

I do. He’s a mentor of mine, and honestly, I wouldn’t be without him, getting me through this journey and helping Shattered Ice get made. His name is Tamlin Hall. He’s out of Atlanta, Georgia. He runs a nonprofit called Hope Givers. Their mission is to normalize the conversation through storytelling. He does a great initiative with students creating short films and getting into the high schools and having these live events. He wrote and directed a movie called I Am Holding On. That’s why I reached out to him in regards to his journey. He’s just been a mentor ever since, and I think he would be a great person to talk to.

Thank you so much for that nomination of him. I will certainly get his info from you offline and reach out and connect and hopefully, we’ll have him on the show. He sounds like a really interesting individual. I love the work that both he and you are doing out in the community. Again, keep it up. Anything we’re able to do to support, we’d like to. When Shattered Ice is around, get out there and watch because it sounds like there’s a lot to the topic that people would benefit from. Jake, thanks again. I appreciate it.

Thank you. This was awesome.

Thanks for coming out. We’ll talk to you soon.

Sounds good. Thank you.

Important Links

About Jake Miskin

Jake is the Founder/Owner of Nehoiden Street Films. Jake spent the early part of his career in the sport industry world, until he took his leap into filmmaking.

Jake resides in Massachusetts with his wife Lexi. Jake believes Nehoiden Street Films will be a disruptor in the Independent Film space by combining authentic New England stories and mental health to help create powerful conversations.

Shattered Ice, his first film premiered at the Sedona International Film Festival and won The Most Impactful Film award. Jake graduated from Springfield College with a BS degree in Sport Management.

Reading about mental health is hard. Let’s schedule a free consultation.

Normalize It Forward - Marc Lehman | Greg Hudnall Jr. | Youth Mental Health

Youth Mental Health: Fostering Human Connection In Schools With Greg Hudnall Jr. Of Hope Squad

September 2, 2025June 12, 2025

Fostering human connection and hope within schools is a vital step in addressing youth mental health. In this insightful episode, we delve into this critical topic with Greg Hudnall Jr., CEO of Hope Squad. We learn about Hope Squad’s innovative approach to empowering students to become active listeners and supportive peers, helping to normalize conversations around mental health and provide crucial connections. Greg shares his unique journey from corporate America to leading Hope Squad, inspired by his father’s dedication to suicide prevention, and discusses the alarming statistics surrounding youth suicide and mental health challenges. This conversation sheds light on the importance of peer-to-peer support, emotional awareness, and the need for communities to recognize and address mental health issues proactively. Greg also provides valuable resources, including HopeSquad.com, for schools and parents seeking to implement effective mental health support systems.

Reading about mental health is hard. Let’s schedule a free consultation.

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Watch the episode here

Listen to the podcast here

Youth Mental Health: Fostering Human Connection In Schools With Greg Hudnall Jr. Of Hope Squad

We are joined by Greg Hudnall Jr. of Hope Squad. Greg, welcome to the program.

Thanks.

A bit about your background, Greg is the Chief Executive Officer at Hope Squad. By background, he spent a decade in corporate America at Kroger Co. and Johnson & Johnson in process improvement, marketing, and sales. Greg firmly believes that good personal mental health habits, active listening, and reaching out to trusted peers have the ability to save lives. When he is not at work, he enjoys hiking, exercising, and reading. A fun fact is that he has climbed 15 of Colorado’s 58 fourteeners. He’s been to 5 continents and lived in 4 different countries. His next bucket list item is Mount Kilimanjaro. Greg, welcome. How are you?

I’m good. Thanks. I’m looking forward to the conversation.

From Corporate To Compassion: The Birth Of Hope Squad

Tell us a little bit about Hope Squad.

Hope Squad is a company. We say that we exist in order to foster human connection, community, and hope. We exist in order to help in that connection. We believe connections have the power to change lives. We exist as an organization. We work within a couple of thousand schools across the country. We help implement what we call the Hope Squad model and the Hope Squad Way, which is taking the peers that are nominated by their peers inside of a school and putting them together with some certified advisor or certified adults that Hope Squad certifies.

We have them work week after week and month after month of a school year in order to help exactly what your show says, normalize the conversation around mental health, and then be that active listening ear for their peers, notice dysregulation or things that perhaps are a little out of the ordinary, and to put their arm around their friends and peers and say, “Can we talk? There’s something going on in your life. What can I do to help?”

What a great concept. I love it. Having worked in the schools my whole career, both private and public at varying levels, what a great concept to bring to a school system and help kids understand mental health and help them understand their role around their peers. That’s fantastic. How long have you been with the company?

I’ve been with Hope Squad full-time for about a year and a half.

Peer Power: Normalizing Mental Health In Schools

I couldn’t help but notice you made a bit of a jump from corporate America to Hope Squad. I’m wondering what’s behind that.

Hope Squad started as an idea by my dad many years ago when my dad was in public education. He worked in public education for 30 years. He was a high school principal, and then he worked at the district office. He lost a couple of students to death by suicide. As a high school principal, he recognized the opportunity that the school system could and should do more.

When he was at the district office, he talked about making a change and trained as many adults in the school system and in the community as he could, and it didn’t impact the death by suicides. They realized something needed to be different and something needed to change. That something was focusing on the peer-to-peer component and the peer-to-peer power. We know that kids are more likely to talk to a peer than they are to an adult. That is what they’re hardwired to do at those ages, especially middle school and high school. As they do so, we want to make sure that the kids they’re talking to are the ones who are empowered and knowledgeable. They have the tools and resources in order to do so.

Kids are more likely to talk to a peer than they are to an adult. Share on X

That’s what my dad was trying to do many years ago. He worked on that when he retired from the school district, and continued to work on that inside Utah. He set up an organization, Hope Squad, in order to help take that to the country and to the world. I was ancillary involved prior to joining full-time. My dad has since retired and provided the opportunity to help take this to thousands of more schools across the country.

Youth Mental Health Crisis: Unveiling The Stark Statistics

What a fantastic concept. I want to back out for a minute and update the parents who are reading. I wonder sometimes as a therapist. You’re in the mental health space. We might take for granted that parents realize how bad an issue this is. I want to throw out a few statistics to illustrate it. First of all, I work with young adults, mostly high school and college-aged. In that age bracket, suicide is the second leading cause of death. To give parents a sense, that has climbed from number 12 to number 2. Anxiety and depressive symptoms are through the roof. They’re as high as I’ve seen in my entire career, both with high school and college students.

It’s unfortunate, but in my area here in Connecticut, I have come across four different scenarios where individuals have taken their own lives. It’s tragic. It’s so sad. There’s such a ripple effect that occurs. I’ve had students of mine tell me about another student that they don’t know too well, but they’re a contemporary of theirs. They hear these stories, and it’s triggering and disturbing for young people.

That doesn’t go away after a week or two. As adults, we think, “They’re back. They’re settled. They’re in their routine,” but it’s a big issue, as far as I can tell, in most communities that have been touched by this. I appreciate so deeply what you guys are doing. My guess is there are a lot of schools out there and a lot of parents out there who would want to get in touch. How do they do that? How do they get in touch with Hope Squad?

The easiest way is to go to our website, HopeSquad.com. There’s a big button right on HopeSquad.com in order to connect. We ask for a little bit of information, including your name and email, in order for us to be able to reach back out and start that conversation about what it looks like. You read a little bit about my background. Maybe it’s my stats degree that pulls at me, but I do want to hit on something.

The CDC does a regular Youth Risk Behavior Survey. I want to point out results from 2023, the same news and trends that you’re talking about, that perhaps put this in stark numbers for our readers out there about what we talk about. The Youth Behavior Risk Survey from the CDC said that 40% of high school kids reported feeling persistent sadness or hopelessness, and then their number is that 10% of kids attempted suicide.

When you look at a classroom of 30 kids, it’s 3 kids. Three kids in any given classroom across the United States had attempted to die by suicide. In almost any age group, from youth, suicide is one of the leading causes of death. These are the numbers that we’re dealing with as communities, as families, and as parents that we have to grapple with on a daily basis.

I’ll be honest. I’m 51. I would guess a lot of parents think, “That’s not happening in our town or in our community.” Yet, it is. There are statistics to prove it. There are examples to prove it, unfortunately. I wonder. What are your thoughts when you hear a parent respond in the manner of, “This could never happen here.”

It’s a tough conversation for the times that we talk with parents and families who have lost a child or a family member to suicide. The truth of it is that a lot of the time, we’ll hear from parents, “I couldn’t believe that it was happening to us.” In any tragic part of our life, when that moment, which can be avoided in many cases, comes to us, we often don’t know what to do. It’s that side of us that’s saying, “I can’t believe that this could happen to us.”

Being perhaps the data nerd that I am, looking at this from that side would be an attempt to say that it does happen in every society, and it does happen in every community across the United States. Being blind to it, perhaps, isn’t going to make the problem go away by not being able to talk about it. One of the reasons I love the name of your show is that we’re doing exactly that. We’re normalizing the conversation around mental health.

The CDC reported data is something that I hope we can attempt not to ignore. The reason we talk about it and plaster it everywhere is so we can start the conversation around how this data exists for kids. At the end of the day, it’s three kids that I care about more than the data of 1 out of 10 or the 3 out of 30 in this classroom. What I care about is those three kids and what they are feeling. Do they have a friend to go to and talk to? Do they have someone to talk to?

As Hope Squad, what we want to do is try to empower those kids, those schools, and those communities in order to have those conversations, and then, when and as needed or when appropriate, they’re elevating that to the likes of therapists and psychologists across the country. The system as a whole, we know, struggles in terms of having the resources to meet the needs. Not every clinical approach is going to help. Often, what we’re trying to do is at that grassroots level of having a peer and sitting down next to somebody, talking, having the conversation, and reaching out.

It’s so important. It’s interesting. I’ve been doing what I do for a while, and the show is fairly new to me. I enjoy learning and getting a different point of view from people. In one of my interviews, we were talking about the show A Million Little Things. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the show. It’s one of my favorites. I was talking to the executive producer. He had asked me a question about what resonated with me.

It got me thinking about a scene in the first show when an individual was in the middle of trying to kill themselves. He had a mouthful of pills. Something tragic happened to a friend at the same time, and he spit them out. What got me about that scene was that for several episodes, he never told anybody. Here he is, looking to end his life, and he is holding this secret.

I can’t begin to tell you how many young people have come into my office over the years and told me something similar. When I ask them the question, “Who knows about this?” The answer’s always the same, which is, “You’re the only person.” I want parents to understand from this conversation as much as possible that there is a secretive nature to all of this.

Kids, even if they haven’t told you they’re struggling, they very well might be. The statistics show that many kids do. It becomes important to try to figure out a way to access those conversations. Your organization, through peers, does a great job of making that happen. I wanted to shift and ask you a little bit about the why. Why are these numbers so off the charts? Why are they so extreme? In your opinion, why have they gone in that direction in the last couple of years?

Digital Disconnect: Social Media’s Impact On Youth Wellbeing

I’m no social scientist, so why is a tough answer for causation. Perhaps I’ll speak a little bit from correlation. I don’t know the full reason of the why. I’m sure it’s multifaceted. I’m positive of that fact. I do think that as we continue to live our lives around cell phones and away from the connection that we used to get, that helps drive perhaps feelings of isolation. We’ve never been more connected in a digital space, and we’ve never been more unconnected in a friendship or a relationship in a tangible way. That’s part of it. It’s one that’s concerning to me.

I have little kids. I think about Jonathan Haidt’s The Anxious Generation and the way that I want to try to approach my kids growing up with their access to social media, for example. I am not saying that the internet or cell phones are bad, but what are the tools and the way that we use them? Are we protecting our kids too much from the physical world and not enough from the digital world? How do we have a healthy balance from that?

As parents, we have the opportunity to look around and make sure that our kids are getting the connection that they need at those ages that we’ve talked about, middle school and high school. At the end of elementary, they’re hardwired to look to their peers for that connection. What is the way that they’re getting the connection? What is the way that we, as parents, are fostering that connection for these kids?

That’s very well said. There have been a lot more, on the principal level, restrictions on phones during the day in middle schools and high schools, which is great. I’ve seen many more kids with their heads up, walking in hallways and on campuses in 2025 maybe than I have in the last many years as a result of that. That’s not to be underestimated. That connection and that ability to have a conversation have a direct impact on the isolation many kids have felt over the years. It’s important for parents to understand that impact. I always say social media is like having a swimming pool. It can be a lot of fun, but you have to respect the hazardous side as well.

That’s a good analogy.

There clearly is a hazardous side. There are a lot of things out there. Honestly, the show became something I wanted to develop mostly because of these types of conversations that I feel like can help parents parent their kids and help them understand. There isn’t a playbook here, but there are plenty of resources out there, you being one of them and your organization being one of them, to help guide a sense of, “You may not have a lot of contact with depression, anxiety, or suicide, but know it’s out there. Know that even if your kids aren’t struggling, they’re around people who are struggling, and that can have an impact as well.”

Great point. The comment that I’ll make is you’re right. Some of those kids are going to be the ones who get nominated to a Hope Squad. They’re the ones who are the resource that other kids come to. One of the reasons we say that Hope Squad works so well in any community and any environment is that it’s not the adults who are choosing the Hope Squad members. It’s the peers, so it’s meant to be reflective of your community. It’s meant to be reflective of the community that it’s in.

We've never been more connected in a digital space, and we've never been more unconnected in a friendship or a relationship in a tangible way. Share on X

It is having a voice of that band student, that football player, or whoever it is that gets nominated to the Hope Squad because they’re a good listener. They’re the ones who then sit all year long with the trained advisor. They’re working on the content, the warning signs, and risk factors of suicide, and then are like, “How do I do a better job of recognizing disconnection? How do I practice reaching out to somebody? How do I overcome my own fear, put down my own phone, reach out to somebody that I haven’t seen for a couple of days or that looks maybe a little bit different than they normally do, ask a question, and make a connection?”

That’s so fantastic, the way in which you guys created this, going at it from a kid’s perspective and understanding. I was thinking, as you were talking, of the social hierarchy that a lot of schools have. There are a lot of peer opportunities in schools, but this cuts through all of that in a way that everybody is available to do this. It’s not so much about a need. It’s more about a want, and which of you kids wants to participate, learn these skills, grow, and feel like you’re helping or assisting in some way?

To be honest, Greg, most kids need that. When I say to kids, “Have you known somebody who has either taken their life or tried to take their life?” They do. Most kids have a list of kids. They’re living amongst that. They’re living in this world. It makes being a kid hard, in some ways. To flip it back to us as parents, it makes parenting those kids challenging as well.

Let me ask you a little bit more about parenting. You touched on social media. There’s so much around the dos and don’ts, if you will, of parenting and what we ought to be looking at versus what some parents are looking at. I’m wondering. Your organization must have a decent amount of contact with parents. Do you tend to get lots of support from parents or lots of parents not supporting you? What kind of feedback do you typically get from the parenting point of view?

First off, I’ll say that to be a Hope Squad member, you have to have a signed parent permission form. Any Hope Squad member in the entire country, every single year, has to return a signed parent permission slip. That’s the bar. At a minimum, parents are aware and are allowing their child to participate in Hope Squad. That’s number one.

Number two, it’s amazing the positive impact we get from parents. Once parents understand what we’re trying to do and the positive impact that it makes on their child and the school community, we have such a positive response from parents. If parents go to our website, they’ll see a video from a lady who is a Hope Squad mom and considers herself a Hope Squad mom. She starts out the video by saying, “Some parents are parents of band kids, and some parents are sports parents. We’re a Hope Squad family. We’re Hope Squad parents.”

Their kids all independently got nominated to be a part of the Hope Squad. She said it was a culture that they fostered within their home to make sure that their kids were reaching out and being aware of other kids. As she talks about that video, that is reflective of the majority of parents out there in response to their interaction with Hope Squad.

One thing we’ll notice is that as Hope squad members grow up, graduate high school, and move on to other parts, we’ll have them reaching out to us in later years in college and thereafter. You see that that influence extends far beyond school. I’m sure those parents, in the same exact way, are appreciative of the way that Hope Squad is providing beneficial mental health awareness, at the very least, to these kids long-term.

The hope is for kids who participate in Hope Squad or other great groups out there to become self-aware of their own emotions, so that they can take those moments to pause. Share on X

I love that. That’s fantastic. What a great culture to lay down for kids. The impact of that, honestly, you guys may not even necessarily know or hear about, but my guess is it develops exponentially in some ways in the future.

We hope so.

Empowering Emotions: Preparing Teens For College Transition

Let me ask you about one other question. As a therapist, I see a lot of high school kids late in high school transitioning to college. I’m wondering about your perspective on mental health and wellness, in general, of that population of kids.

Through the transition from high school to college?

Yeah.

It’s perhaps more pronounced, but almost no different than that change we see, especially if they change campuses. For a kid going from elementary school to middle school or middle school to high school, there’s a lot of that big change that happens. What I’m hoping is that kids who participate in Hope Squad or other great groups out there in a similar way are becoming self-aware of their own emotions, so that they can take those moments to pause.

When I was in school, we certainly didn’t talk about self-care. We certainly didn’t talk about mental and emotional awareness to the degree that we do. What I would think about with these kids is making sure that they are able to articulate their feelings. Brené Brown’s book came out with 83 or 85 different emotions. It takes me looking at those on a page in order to be able to articulate what those are.

There’s the opportunity as someone graduating from high school and going to college, and that fear or anxiety as you set yourself up in a new dorm room for the very first time. As parents, we look at that and we think, “This is a great opportunity. Look at all the great memories that I have.” Sometimes, we perhaps overlook and forget the anxiety that we had ourselves on that first day, settling into a new dorm room with new roommates, etc.

We are helping to normalize, which is the name of your show, the feelings that they’re having so that they can understand, “Feelings don’t own me and don’t control me. I get to decide what I do, but I’m going to recognize this feeling for what it is. At this moment, it’s perhaps a little fear, perhaps a little anxiety, or whatever it is. We can talk through it.”

There are so many great points there, and I want to pull one out. At the very least, one of the things your organization does and does well is helping kids understand their emotions. Feeling an emotion is one thing. Acting on it is another. We all have felt fear. We all have felt frustration, stress, anxiety, and all of those things. Sometimes, kids will be paralyzed by those feelings. Others will see them coming and be able to take steps to shift away from it.

At the very least, we need to be aware, know that it’s there, and recognize that those are things that can have a major impact on us. I appreciate the thrust of what your organization does because, in many ways, the solution to helping reduce so many of these numbers and these statistics starts with this. It starts with that awareness.

That’s why we also operate in elementary schools with the primary purpose of trying to teach around that awareness of emotions.I have a 5-year-old. What better time to help kids to help them understand and then ask. When they’re in a moment when they need to ask for help in recognizing their own feelings, either they need a moment in the quiet corner or they need to ask for help with an emotion, what better time for someone to learn than in elementary school before they get to middle school or high school and they haven’t developed those skills?

They don’t know when to ask for help. They are reaching for other things, like cutting and something else, that perhaps is the less productive form of asking for help or reaching out for help. One of our main focuses and goals is trying to reach more kids in the elementary space for exactly this reason. They’re normalizing that conversation around mental health and mental well-being in the elementary level as they grow up in middle school and high school, and then it becomes part of the culture. It becomes part of the conversation.

It’s brilliant. That’s the way it needs to happen. As it’s done early that way, it becomes a normal part of what kids do, versus this being something new and different. It’s a brilliant move on your behalf. To me, the earlier the better, honestly. There are a lot of opportunities there. The way the show is set up is that I generally will ask for people to nominate a friend, a coworker, or a relative. Emma Benoit was so kind to nominate you. That’s the way we’re able to keep the conversation moving forward. Let me ask and put you on the spot for a minute. Is there anyone you’d like to nominate in your world?

I do. Before I do that, I want to give a shout-out to Emma Benoit for the gracious offer that she gave of nominating me. Working for the organization that I do, where nominations mean so much, I am grateful for Emma. She is such an inspiration. I worked with her for probably around a year, but I got to meet her for the first time a few months ago in Mississippi. I’m grateful for all that she does and the way that she does it, and even more than what she does, but the way that she does it. I’m grateful for the example she is.

I’ve known her for a couple of years. She’s in one of our episodes. I’ve done an interview with her already. She was amazing and, in many ways, a role model for young adults, and for them to look at how there is an opportunity here for change. She is a change agent. I feel like she’s a pioneer as a young adult, laying the groundwork for the future for so many different young people. Back to you.

To be clear, it’s also not just young adults. I aspire to be like Emma. If I can grow up and be a lot more like Emma, I’ll have succeeded in a lot of ways.

Well said.

Let me do a shout-out. I spent some time thinking about this, mostly because of Emma’s nomination. There’s a great organization out of South Dakota that’s called Helpline Center. The CEO of the Helpline Center is Janet Kittams. I want to give a shout-out to Janet and her organization for the way in which they run 988 inside of South Dakota and also for the way in which they help support Hope Squads throughout the state. She and her organization are doing, not just saying, helping to normalize the conversation of mental health and mental well-being, and supporting Hope Squads in the process.

I really appreciate it. As they say, it takes a village. It sounds like she’s doing some amazing work. For those of you who don’t know, 988 is a national suicide hotline available for individuals to contact if they are having thoughts and need support. I look forward to reaching out and connecting with Janet. Thank you so much for your time and all that you do at Hope Squad. Your organization seems amazing. I look forward to continuing to stay connected and continuing to work with young adults and assist them. Thank you.

It was a pleasure. Thanks.

Have a great day. Take care.

You, too.

Important Links

About Greg Hudnall Jr.

Greg is the current Chief Executive Officer of Hope Squad.

He spent a decade in corporate America at The Kroger Co. and Johnson & Johnson in process improvement, marketing, and sales roles.

Greg firmly believes that good personal mental health habits, active listening, and reaching out to trusted peers have the ability to save lives.

When he’s not at work he enjoys hiking, exercise, and reading. Fun facts: he’s climbed 15 of Colorado’s 58 fourteeners. He’s been to 5 continents and lived in 4 different countries. His next bucket list item is Mount Kilimanjaro.

Reading about mental health is hard. Let’s schedule a free consultation.

Normalize It Forward - Marc Lehman | Rob Thorsen | Shoulder Check Foundation

The Shoulder Check Foundation Story: On Loss, Inspiration, And Making Contact With Rob Thorsen

July 8, 2025May 22, 2025

In a world where genuine connection can feel scarce, understanding the power of empathy and vulnerability becomes essential for mental health and wellness. In this episode, we dive deep into the transformative work of the Shoulder Check Initiative with founder Rob Thorsen, who shares the deeply personal story behind its inception and its mission to encourage authentic human connection. Rob explains how the foundation, inspired by his son Hayden, works to dismantle barriers to vulnerability and promotes checking in on one another as a powerful tool for mental well-being. Discover how their innovative approaches, including a unique emoji and community events, aim to create a world where “making contact” is not just a tagline, but a way of life. Join us as Rob reveals the simple yet profound message that everyone has a hand to give and everyone might need a hand, inspiring listeners to embrace vulnerability and build stronger, more supportive communities.

Reading about mental health is hard. Let’s schedule a free consultation.

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Watch the episode here

Listen to the podcast here

The Shoulder Check Foundation Story: On Loss, Inspiration, And Making Contact With Rob Thorsen

Welcome, everybody, to the show. This is the show that talks openly about mental health and wellness. On our show, we’re joined by Rob Thorsen, founder of the Shoulder Check Foundation. Welcome, Rob. How are you?

Excellent. Thanks very much for having me. I appreciate it.

Kicking Off The Conversation: Rob Thorsen & The Heart Of Shoulder Check

Thanks for being here, Rob. I would love to start things off if you could maybe tell us a little bit about the Shoulder Check Foundation that you run.

For sure. It’s just the reason that puts us together here. I give you the context for what we’re up to. Our program is called The Shoulder Check. We’re more formally the HT40 Foundation, where we started, and we’re on a mission to help young men and women make contact with one another. It’s pretty straightforward. The best way to say what we’re trying to do is you never know who might need a hand, but we all have a hand to give. Our thought was that the more people we can get checking in on one another, the more likely we are to catch someone who needs some support and give them the space and permission to say they need it.

What a great way of saying all of that. That’s fantastic. I’ve definitely looked into, on my end, a little bit about your foundation. I’m so impressed with what you guys do and all of what you just said. I agree 100% with absolutely everything you just mentioned. Tell us a little bit about how it came together.

Unfortunately, a lot of things sometimes take their inspiration in moments of tragedy, and that thing. My son Hayden Thorsen he’s the HT40 and the HT40 Foundation. His number was 40. He was a hockey player. He died by suicide in May of 2022. When he passed, of course, the world turned upside down, and you don’t know which way to go.

As we were navigating that, there were a lot of conversations that were happening at the time, whether it was parents related to us or kids asked us directly, they said, “Who’s going to do it?” Hades did for us now that he’s gone. It just took not very long to realize that what he did was put his hand on people’s shoulders. That’s what he did. He was a hands-on shoulder guy. I happened to be walking down the stairs in my hallway, just like everybody else.

You got all the pictures from babies all the way up to the current moment in time. As I scanned them one day, I looked across them. Since Hayden was three years old, there wasn’t a photograph where he didn’t have people around him within his arms. That’s literally what he did. He put his hands on people’s shoulders.

That became the point of inspiration for what we’re doing here, which is nothing more than I like to think Hades would have been doing himself if he were with us, which is just look after people, put hands on shoulders. What was so striking about that for so many people was like, “There’s a big guy.” He was an athlete, he was all that stuff. He was sixteen-year-old, 6 foot 3, 200-pound guy. He had a presence that most people didn’t have.

You would notice him, but you remembered him because even though he was the big guy in the room, he was the one who was just aware of where other people were. That made an impression on a lot of people, and obviously on me and in my life. He is then, in turn, the inspiration for what we’re doing here. He was the check-in guy, and we’re trying to help spread that and teach other people how to check in.

First of all, so sorry for your loss. Really, a tragedy. He sounded like an absolutely amazing human being who, in so many ways, as I talked to parents, Rob, reminds me of that adage of like kids teach parents so much. He sounds like he was an inspiration. I heard you say on an interview once that you guys are working at bringing vulnerability and connection closer together, which I think is awesome. I think it’s such a great way of saying.

Selling Kindness: How Shoulder Check Is Shifting Mental Health Awareness

Thank you. I appreciate that. That’s what we started by saying, like there are a lot of great organizations in the world working to help bring mental health and wellness to the fore, and helping in moments of crisis. By career, I’m not a practitioner. I obviously couldn’t identify a moment of crisis when it was right beside me. I’m an advertising guy. My background is in marketing and advertising. I used to run an ad agency.

That’s the path that led to how we got to this idea, and why it’s built the way it is, and what we’re trying to do with it. Another thing that happened around the same time, we were going through the first few months of this, I happened to be working with an organization in my professional life, a national organization that is about health and wellness, empowerment, so on and so forth. I was having a conversation, just looking for what should I do.

The person I was talking to said to me, it sounds harsh, but it took me a second to turn a harsh statement into a positive thing. She’s like, “You need to leave this to the professionals.” I was like, “What does that mean?” I reflected on it, and it was like, “You’re right. I am not a mental health practitioner. That’s not my profession. I’m a marketer, I’m an advertiser, a brand builder.” We just pivoted, and we thought like, “What if we could build a program or a brand that was based on selling kindness and empathy,” for lack of saying it.

There are a lot of organizations out there, and you know the language, it’s starting to come into play, breaking down stigmas and all that good stuff. Saying things like “You are not alone,” or “It’s okay to not be okay.” The thing we realized is that a lot of that messaging is still putting the burden on the person who is struggling to raise their hand and break through that and say, “I need help over here.” That’s that vulnerability thing.

Our thought was that if we could enlist everybody into the conversation, get more people checking in, it’ll make it that much easier for the person who is struggling to hopefully say or to answer that question honestly. How many times in my life, if you’re just saying about “How you’re doing today” like 99 out of 100 times again, “I’m good, man.” There have been a lot of times where I’ve not been good over the last few years, and very seldomly would I ever actually share that. Even that was a personal experience with it, just creating space.

Now I find in doing this like that’s what the Shoulder Check is there to do is get everybody involved to help give permission to be vulnerable. Every time I go somewhere and have a conversation, now I’m amazed by the conversations I find myself, whether it be like between you and I, between me and adults, peers that I’ve known my whole life, or even more powerfully with the young men and women that we’re building this program for. It’s been pretty incredible.

It’s amazing, Rob, and you’re touching lives. I think you’re being vulnerable. I’ve always said, know, “Vulnerability breeds vulnerability.” When you put that out there. I have to clarify, too. I am a practitioner, and I’m the first one to say. The amount of people out there that are suffering is up here. The amount of us was down here. Not enough of us. Guess what? Maybe people disagree with me on this. I don’t really care, but we’ve got to band together.

There are things you can offer. I cannot. There are things I can offer. You cannot. I think together, we’re stronger. What you’ve tapped into here, and I’m so glad you have, is that notion that’s being overlooked. Especially men, how many men, when they’re approached, how are you doing, just give that canned response. When the harsh reality is that if you look at the statistics, most people are dealing with stuff.

That tracks back to that it was in 2021 or spring of 2022, then the surgeon general published that study said, “We’re dealing with this crisis of loneliness and isolation.” That’s where we anchored our idea. I think about it in terms of being like pre-intervention or upstream from intervention, trying to catch a few more folks before they slip through the next level. I know it’s been more in your professional parlance than in mine, but like this notion of like paths of despair.

That’s their first step. There’s the sympathy of starting to feel alone or depressed or suffering from anxiety that then manifests itself in different paths. Anything you force in is going to come out one way or another, whether you want it to or not. That could be behavioral. It could be an addiction. It could be all those types of things. God forbid, suicidal ideation, thoughts, so on and so forth. Our thought was if we could just maybe try and lend a hand, for lack of a better way of saying it.

Anything you force in is going to come out one way or another, whether you want it to or not. Share on X

A little bit further upstream and hopefully just maybe clock a few spots where people could use a hand. Of course, the job to do there is to bring in a professional or to get a parent, a teacher, or to get somebody on the phone, all those kinds of things, because we’re not qualified to solve the problems. If we could identify a few of them before they get worse, I think that would be a positive contribution.

Reaching Out Before It’s Too Late: Making Contact & Building Connections

Life-saving, huge. I think you said it well, Rob. For so many of those kids, they’re alone and they’re alone with some monstrous ideas that are way above their pay grade. My feeling is that you said it best when we first started talking, any individual is able to lend a hand. I’ll tell you, when you reach out and you have somebody look back at you and go, “Nobody’s ever asked me that, or I really appreciate talking.” Anything like that. It feels good to help. Many individuals out there all they need is an ear. Someone to listen to them.

Just get that conversation started. Our mission, we would give ourselves as the HT40 Foundation, that of course gave rise to the Shoulder Check, is to create as many ways as we can come up with and put them out into the world to help people make contact. We say, “Reach out, check in, make contact” is our tagline. Making contact is like the most important language we have in what we’re up to.

If we give that as our mission or our brief to ourselves and a very fortunate in all the people that have come out and helped build the Shoulder Check so far, whether it’s my son’s world of hockey, which we’ve got support all the way up to the NHL there to my and my wife’s professional network where we have our previous organizations, ad agencies who’ve been giving themselves to this pro bono for years now. Everybody is just pitching in to create ways to help people make contact.

It’s awesome. Can I ask, because I’m interpreting that phrase, make contact, and I’m thinking in my head, in some ways, both for adults and for kids. I know you mean literally touching base, but I guess I’m wondering, tell us a little bit more about where that space is, make contact. Tell me what you mean.

When this idea first started, I literally had made some notes in a notebook and a little tiny bad sketch because I couldn’t draw anything.

Me too.

There are just two people sitting side by side. One person had a hand on the other person’s shoulder. On one side, it said, “I need a hand.” The other side said, “I have a hand to give.” That idea, that we are both always in both of those roles. We are capable of extending a hand, but also always in need to whatever extent. This idea of a hand on a shoulder, I think, is really powerful and universal. Insofar as a hand on a shoulder can be everything from like, congratulatory, and celebratory, without having to say a word, to encouraging and motivating.

We are capable of extending a hand, but also always in need to whatever extent. Share on X

Pat it back like, “You got this” without having to say a word, to also in a moment of consolation, without having to say a word, meaning I’m here for you. Much can be conveyed in such a simple way without ever having to search for the words, but saying everything that needs to be said in that simple moment. I mean that literally, but also figuratively, of course. Social media, it’s of course a hot topic, and there are so many things that are wrong with it.

There are so many negative, detrimental impacts and effects, but at the same time, surely there’s a way to build a positive community in that space. We can use it to do that. Maybe they’ve built platforms with bad algorithms that take you down rabbit holes that you shouldn’t be going down. Let’s not do that. Let’s find a way to make it turn in a positive way and build a community that way.

Last year, we launched an emoji that we created, which was the make contact emoji, which was just a hand with a little blue heart that would let you start conversations that you could read and see it. It means like, “You’re thinking about me in a more meaningful way,” than a thumbs up or, let’s give that meaning and let’s use that as a way to start conversations.

We’re working on new things now with our creative partners, where we hope to launch new things again this year. We have our flagship, which is coming up. Our flagship event is called the Shoulder Check Showcase. It’s in Stanford, Connecticut. We have about 2,000 people come out, and we have 30 NHLers and PWHLers who come out. We play this charity hockey game, but this whole thing came together originally.

This will be our third year now. The first year, we invited 2500 people in, and it was an experiment. Before the main game started, our host, or MC, was Dave Maloney’s former Raider Great came out and we created this moment where we asked all 2500 people to put their hand on the shoulder of the person next to them and do like a call and repeat. I promise to reach out.

I saw the video. This was great, powerful.

It was. It was a bit of an experiment, but it was a learning for me. We all experienced it in real time together because no one knew that that was going to happen. It changed the mood in the building. Incredible. Even people walking out, they were like, “What?” It was palpable. I think it just proved to just the power of genuinely connecting with someone. Mostly strangers talking to strangers. I cannot tap your shoulders. It was a cool moment.

That’s what we try and replicate in everything we do. As I said, both figuratively and literally. As the check spreads and we’ve touched, I don’t know. I was just making a list because you’re always updating your stuff and you’re emails and website and whatnot. I’ve got a hundred entries now of different programs and organizations. Every one of those programs is touching between a hundred or a thousand people. A lot of people are putting a lot of hands on shoulders.

A lot of shoulders, Rob. That’s great. That’s amazing. Let me just, let me just ask before I skip over it, how can people get involved? You mentioned you’re big.

Our website is just ShoulderCheck.org. We’ve got a section in there. It says, “I want to bring the Shoulder Check to my community, to my team, to my organization, to my school.” Everything that we’ve done is archived there. You can see what everyone’s done in the past. That website is just meant to be a place for inspiration. You can see how other people are using it. There are some downloadables and instructions.

You could bring it to, like I said, whether it’s a team, whether it’s a town, whatever. I say this a lot, like the Shoulder Check, it’s an interesting place to operate. My one point of reference for what I hope the Shoulder Check can be, aim high. It’s my number one. Everybody knows the month of October, the world turns pink and Susan G. Komen raises hundreds of millions of dollars annually for cancer research and health issues.

The other guys from November who took the lead there and said, “Let’s do that for men’s health initiatives in November with the mustache and the color purple,” or whatever that is. Our thought was like, “What if we could turn the world’s blue aqua color of ours in September and let that stand not necessarily for raising money for kindness, but raising awareness for one another.” The Shoulder Check should be the thing where it’s an ingredient, and you can use it however you see fit. Like, “I could bring that to my band. I could bring that to my part-time job.

I could bring that home and talk about it at dinner.” It can go anywhere anyone wants to take it. I talk about it a lot. A story has a beginning, middle, and an end, and an idea has a beginning in that it evolves. This is an idea. It’s not a story. It’s to evolve based on whoever gets involved in it. It’ll go where people are compelled to take it. It’s our job to help support that, not tell people what to do, but rather, hopefully inspire them to see ways they can use this in their own way.

Beyond Words: Emojis, Vulnerability, And Teens Talking It Out

What a great concept. What an amazing concept. I want to go back to one thing you mentioned, Rob, that I think I want to highlight just for a moment for my readers. You talked about creating an emoji. I had the thought when you said that, I’m like, “Many teenagers are worried about their friends.” Yet they’ll come into my office and they’ll tell me about it. I’ll say to them, “Have you told anybody?” “No, you’re the first one I’ve told.” There’s that awkwardness.

There’s that notion of like, “We’re two teens and I’m worried about Rob. Do I say anything to Rob? I don’t want to upset Rob. I just don’t say anything.” Yet an emoji is such a great way to communicate care and concern. I just want to highlight that for my readers that teens clearly communicate differently than we do. You guys have figured this out. In many ways, it doesn’t matter how you communicate. As long as you’re communicating, as long as you’re letting that person know, “I’m here and I’m concerned about you.”

I came to this line of thinking for myself and for what we’re doing here. There’s that duality that exists. You can think your way into a new way of acting, or you can act your way into a new way of thinking. Sometimes I just find myself here doing this, or people asking questions, or like, “Could you come speak to XYZ?” It’s not my goal to be any speaker or to be in front of this, but I do understand that there are times when I have to maybe help people take the first step. That’s cool.

You can think your way into a new way of acting, or you can act your way into a new way of thinking. Share on X

I’m there for that. I had the chance to go speak to a high school about two weeks ago or so. There are about 1200 kids there, which is great. I’m thinking to myself, “What an opportunity to inspire people with this idea.” It also had me thinking, of course, like, “This is a slightly different room than we’ve brought this message.” We’ve done it all over the place, with large groups and small groups and that stuff.

This was the first time it was in this type of high school setting. I got to thinking a bit about like, “What’s different here?” I think the point you were just making is like anything else, communicating in this way or being able to broach this topic, it takes practice, and you have to learn how to do it again. I was thinking, “Now this is a, a learning environment. Let’s practice this. Let’s learn how to do this.”

They had this cool thing going on where I just had 1200 kids turn to one another. I was like, “Repeat after me, but don’t say it to me, say to the person next to you. I could use a hand, like say the words out loud, like practice it, build this skill, and the strength. Just like we study for a history test or we go to a sports team practice or band practice or whatever, like we have to learn these skills.” Of course, for a lot of us, the ability to express oneself is innate.

Just go back to the three-year-old on the ground in the supermarket who wanted the Fruity Pebbles and could not have them. Nothing is holding that kid back from it, just all coming out. Obviously, that’s what we lose over time when we become more self-aware. We worry about what other people think. That’s where this notion of being guarded, not allowing the vulnerability, and that stuff. I was just thinking like, “We just got to relearn those skills. We’ve got to practice them.”

We have a lot of stuff in our toolkit now. We have these little cards that we bring with us everywhere. “Did I check in my loved ones?” This was something we did with PWHL sirens, but now we do this virtually everywhere we go. It’s just another way for people to practice, like saying these things and using these words or getting comfortable stepping into those moments, like you’re saying, like, “Are you okay?”

Like, “I have a hand to give.” Give people different ways, tools, and access points to relearn the skill. That was a bit of a breakthrough moment for us because this idea of like having to relearn something that we intuitively understand, but lose time. Even now, for us, more self-actualized adults, like you, come through that, and you become a little bit more comfortable with who you are and expressing yourself. Even there, it doesn’t always come back easily for everybody.

As you said, it is a skill. It’s something you build up. As a therapist, I’m practicing every day talking to people. I have to periodically remind myself, “Everybody is in a different space when it comes to this type of stuff.” Probably one of the best compliments I’ve heard and it meant a lot was when I first started this show, I got an email from a mom and she was thanking me that we had done a show and she expressed in the email that she was able to talk about the topic of mental health with her fifteen year old because they listened to it in the car on the way to practice one day.

I thought, “How cool is that?” We’re normalizing the conversation. We’re helping people understand the importance of instead of avoiding the subject, let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about it in a comfortable way. Maybe talking about it means reading this blog. Maybe it means practicing some skills so that they can give a presentation that you did. To me, it can be nothing because life keeps moving, and kids are dealing with a lot of stuff nowadays. They’re just dealing with a lot.

That’s what I think, too. I see it each time we have the opportunity to go and talk to people or share the message. It’s the kids that are carrying our idea forward. Of course, there are a lot of great supportive adults and coaches, and administrators along the way, but equally like I’ve had people in those roles say, “No, we’re not going to do this.” It’s been a kid, not to me. It’s been a kid who’s brought it forward to a coach or an organization, and they’ll know, “No, we’re not going to do that. No, we’ll have to take that to our board next year.” I think to myself, “Wow.” I’m sure that’s not just as it relates to Shoulder Check, but kids who are like stepping forward and saying like, “Here’s this positive contribution I want to make, and there are people stopping them from doing it.”

Imagine that.

I cannot get my head around it. That’s why every time, 99 out of 100 times, I default to wanting to speak to the young men and women who I know will spark to this idea and carry it forward. That’s how what we’re doing will grow, but it’s not meant to be our idea. As a matter of fact, not only was this idea, as I mentioned, inspired by my son, but in the aftermath, we had 40, 50 kids at a time over our house, and we worked on this idea together. I went to I’m in Darien, Connecticut. We have a place called the Depot, which is a place for like community. We’ve been there together and working on ideas and incredible moments that we’ve had, where we’ve just built this idea together pretty powerfully.

Reflections Vs. Regrets: Learning From Loss & Lifting Each Other Up

That’s awesome, Rob. That’s amazing. Rob, can I ask a tough question around this topic? I’m imagining my listeners might be thinking to themselves, unfortunately, you guys have been through a tragedy, and through that has come this amazing, as you said, idea. That has just touched so many. Parents might be wondering when these things do happen or when a child is starting to slide. Whether it be, let’s say, a type of depression or a mild type of anxiety, what are some things that they can look for? What are some things that they can be aware of in their world? Probably most importantly, are there some things they can do?

As you say, that is a tough question. Of course, I can only answer that. I say this all the time from my own personal experience. I don’t know better than anyone else. What is the right answer to that question? Look, if 50,000 people, young men, women, walk a path that leads to that final decision, they’ve walked 50,000 different paths. In my instance, if you made a list of 50,000 people, I think Hayden probably would have been 50,001 on that list, which is its own specific instance.

I suppose it’s also, there are commonalities or archetypes of these types of things. Certainly, vastly better than I. There is that person who struggles in silence and from outward appearances appears to have it all in control, but ultimately is dealing with something that they cannot find the space to articulate, or it’s weighing them down in some way. That was our path with it, just as blindsided as any human beings could possibly be. I’m still left searching for those very answers.

What would we have looked for or done differently? Was there something that we didn’t see? Was something that seemed totally normal at the time, not normal? Again, for us personally, there is no resolution to that question. That might not be the answer that anyone would want to hear, but it is the truth of our experience. I guess, to reflect on that, I think it just means that the thing I would say is that there, you could just never assume.

When things first happen, people send you things, and you get cards, or people find things on social media, which is even them finding ways to reach out. They’re looking for ways to make contact and support, but don’t have the words themselves. Someone at some point sent me this, like a little, maybe it’s an Instagram tile or whatever, said, “Check on all your friends, even your happy friends.” At the moment, it made me really angry.

I was like, “We cannot even trust that people are happy.” I’ve reflected on that enormously. We just cannot assume. I know certainly as will happen. I’m now part of this. I live in a world with this. This is incredible. A lot of people seek support groups, and they go to things like that. I have five personal friends in my life that I’ve known that are having the same experience they were having lost a child, that I’ve just known in my life. We were not brought together by this happening. We were already in each other’s lives. We have this support group amongst ourselves, and each of them has walked their own unique path with it.

Some folks had children who were more overtly struggling. They were on a path towards treatment, and some folks had children who were maybe on paths to addiction and those kinds of things. Every individual that have their own experience with it and my personal experience falls into the, you can never assume camp. Here’s the thing, I know as much about what to look out for as anybody else would have read an article that told them to look out for those kinds of things, or would be counseled by a professional as a parent. My learning and my experience are just, you can. There are some things that you will simply never be allowed to know.

I appreciate you sharing that. I think it really speaks to, I remember watching a documentary years ago called The Mask You Wear or something like that, Mask You Live In or something like that. It was really about males. It was really about how often we probably, as you were mentioning, like toddlerhood, we grow into this sense of not telling people how we’re doing. It’s one of the reasons why I, as a therapist, and even personally, push people to share more, not less.

If it makes a person uncomfortable to say, “How are you? Are you okay? Everything all right?” If it makes them uncomfortable, I’d rather they be uncomfortable than not cared for. That’s my attitude toward it because I feel like we’ve strayed so much the other way that we’re just going to pretend and ignore, and not pay attention to. Sometimes things happen, and you have regrets about not just having the confidence to just say, “Is everything all right?”

That’s a piece of my presentation, or talk track, or whatever you want to say, because when I try and share, like, “Here’s how you would do the Shoulder Check and draw this distinction between a reflection and a regret.” There are times where we’re just not going to get it right. Knowing that we tried means we get to reflect on that and we get to learn from it. Whereas the other side of that coin is maybe not having tried or not having done the right thing.

That’s the path to regret. Regret is heavy, man. Regret is something that’s hard to put down, because I think that’s part of what Shoulder Check is about. Again, I’m probably borrowing. In the marketing and advertising sense, we would talk about behavior change. It’s usually meant to buy a different product as opposed to we’re real behavior change, but ultimately, even if you want to just say Shoulder Check is you, if you need to put it in a box, you could call it like an awareness campaign. It’s ultimately meant to just the smallest bit, change behavior or perception or an idea to get to exactly what you’re saying to make it okay to answer that question or to ask that question.

I had the experience personally when we were going through the worst of it. A friend of mine had reached out via text, and he’s like, “I’m just checking in. Hope you’re doing okay.” You receive lots of those every single day. At this one moment, I needed to put something down, and I gave him back a text. I saw the three dots come up. Three dots come up, go away. Never got a reply. There’s no way this gentleman expected the level I put back on him. I like respect.

He gave me permission to just air some stuff. It was great. It was more than he knew was coming at him. I’m sure what am I supposed to do with that? He didn’t have to do anything. Even there. In the moment of an incredibly acute moment where we were having trouble having that dialogue, but I’m sure it’d be your experience as well. I’m on the other side of that divide, so to speak, now. I live in a different place with respect to my emotionality, my willingness, or my ability to express it.

If only because had I not found a way to do it for myself, like I was saying before, I’m sure you know, like anything you push down is coming back out somehow. This is not the thing that you can suppress what was our instinct in the immediate aftermath. Embrace is not a great word because it sounds positive, but you know what I mean? You just have to do what this is and accept what this is. It’s not easy to do, but I think that’s part of what the Shoulder Check is to us.

Of course, a bit of therapy for us. It’s figuring out your hand to see positive outcomes, or to just like you’re saying, occasionally receive some anecdotal feedback that says, “This gave me permission to speak to my child, or this gave me permission to reach out to a teammate.” That’s the hand back on our shoulder, knowing that that’s some contribution.

The Ripple Effect: How Kindness Touches More Lives Than We Know

It’s amazing, Rob. I have to say, through our discussion and just hearing about Shoulder Check, I, too, hope that perhaps it is September one day. Look, as you said, maybe it isn’t about funding, maybe it’s about awareness, because here’s something that I put out a lot, and I want parents to hear this. Sometimes I’ll hear from parents, whether it be a post that someone responds to, or someone will say in my office, “Why all the attention? Why all the attention to mental health? Why are we even talking about it?”

I thought about that a lot one day, and the difference between our generation and theirs. One of the ways I draw that line is I say, “If you have friends that are 40s, 50s, and 60s, you ask them. If you’re at a gathering one day, ask them. When you were in high school, did you ever know anybody or hear about anybody that took their own life?” More often than not, they’re going to say no. You ask a kid that nowadays, not only will they say yes, but they have a list. That’s how much it’s changed.

I guess both, as it relates to obviously an upswing in total numbers, but then even more so, the ability to talk about it now. My parallel on that one is I think back to the same deal, same generation, when we were younger, and I had a cousin who had cancer. That wasn’t something you talked about as much. Certainly had an amazing family around him.

I’m not suggesting that he suffered in silence by any stretch, but we were not standing up to cancer. We were not championing people who have fought, won, or lost that battle. Now we do. We honor them for what they’re going through, for the heroism that is facing down something like that. That’s where we’re at with that conversation. That’s exactly the parallel for where we’re at with this conversation.

It’s been there all along, but now we’re recognizing it, and we are honoring the people that are struggling, and we need to champion them as well. We need to make them feel comfortable, supported, and all those things. I’m sure ten years hence, our show, The Check, started in the world of hockey. It’s all my son’s network. He was a good hockey player. Hockey as a community is a great community that comes out and supports one another. The NHL has a program called Hockey Talks. It started with one franchise out on the West Coast, and now, like twenty of the NHL franchises participate in it.

It’s about exactly that, breaking the silence around the stigma. We’ve participated in them with a lot of the NHL franchises, the Capitals, the Rangers, the Bruins, so on and so forth. We’re just working up bit by bit. People saying like, “Hold on a second, there is strength in being able to talk about this.” That’s the right way to say it. The strength to talk about it is far greater than the strength to talk about it without saying something. We start to honor that champion that bit by bit. The conversation will just be brought more and more to the fore in a positive way.

The strength to talk about it is far greater than the strength to talk about it without saying something. Share on X

No doubt. Whether this or not, I’m going to say it, Rob. The ripple effect Shoulder Check creates, you probably don’t even know how many people you guys are touching and supporting, and helping. I commend you for all you do, all the energy you put forth. I also commend you for taking this tragic situation and flipping it, and putting a scenario out there to help many others, not only today, but also in the future. Thank you for all that you do. Please, those of you that are reading, please look up Shoulder Check, get involved.

Rob’s a wonderful human being, and there are a lot of other people involved, I know. Please do your part and do what you can to support a wonderful organization. Rob, thank you so much for your time, your energy. One last question. I’ll put you on the spot. Normalize it forward. We’re set up so that we want to continue the conversation, and part of continuing to do that is as I ask people to nominate a friend, a coworker, a relative. That’s how we got connected, actually. Would love to put you on the spot and ask anybody in your world or your network, you think would be helpful for me to interview going forward.

Storytelling For Change: Filmmaker Jake Miskin & Shattered Ice

I’m going to point you towards a gentleman by the name of Jake Miskin, who is a filmmaker. They just recently premiered their film called Shattered Ice. The film is about set in a fictitious town, but it’s based on the town that he grew up in, Needham, MA, that about 10 or 15 years ago went through having lost five of their community members.

He made this film to both tell the story of what happened, but also to deliver on the exact same mission that we’re on, which is to show people how to use the arts, to use film as a means to help people talk about these kinds of things. That film just got reviewed a little bit ago, and it’s off to a really good start. He’s a thoughtful guy who he Shoulder Check is doing stuff partnering with. He would have a cool, different perspective on using, we’re anchored in sports, he’s anchored in sports and arts and film, all trying to just bring the message out.

Love it. I’ll get his info from you offline, but I cannot wait to connect with him. Sounds like he’ll offer a great perspective for my readers. The more we get to talk about this, the better. Keep doing what you’re doing. I appreciate and support you.

I got to say thank you to you for what you’re doing here, and giving us the space and the platform to be able to share our message with you and with your audiences is an incredible opportunity for us. I’m grateful for it. Thank you, bud.

I appreciate it. Thank you, Rob. Thank you. Have a wonderful rest of your day. We’ll talk soon.

Right on.

See you.

Important Links

About Rob Thorsen

Rob Thorsen is the founder and executive director of The #HT40 Foundation and the creator of the Shoulder Check initiative. Following the tragic loss of his 16-year-old son, Hayden, to suicide in May 2022, Rob channeled his grief into a mission to combat loneliness and isolation among young people. Hayden, remembered as a compassionate individual who wore jersey number 40 as a goalie at Darien High School, inspired the foundation’s name and its commitment to fostering kindness and connection.

The Shoulder Check initiative encourages simple, meaningful acts of support—such as placing a hand on someone’s shoulder—to let them know they are not alone. This movement aims to inspire a culture of peer-to-peer engagement and social connectedness.

Rob’s professional background in marketing and advertising has been instrumental in promoting the foundation’s message. Under his leadership, the Shoulder Check Showcase, an annual charity hockey game, has grown significantly, attracting NHL players and expanding its reach to raise awareness for mental health.

Through these efforts, Rob Thorsen continues to honor his son’s legacy by advocating for mental health awareness and encouraging communities to support one another through simple, compassionate actions.

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Normalize It Forward - Marc Lehman | Dr. Trina Clayeux | Mental Health

Breaking Mental Health Barriers With Dr. Trina Clayeux

March 18, 2025March 18, 2025

Mental health challenges are more visible than ever, and yet access to proper care remains a major hurdle. Marc Lehman sits down with Dr. Trina Clayeux, CEO of Give an Hour, to discuss innovative solutions for mental health support, including peer-to-peer networks and expanding resources beyond traditional therapy. Dr. Clayeux shares how her organization tackles the mental health crisis by providing free services to veterans, their families, and communities in need. They also explore the importance of suicide protection, the evolving role of self-care, and why businesses must rethink mental health in the workplace. Tune in as they challenge outdated models and offer real-world strategies for making mental health care more accessible.

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Watch the episode here

Listen to the podcast here

Breaking Mental Health Barriers With Dr. Trina Clayeux

We are joined by Dr. Trina Clayeux. Thank you for joining us, Trina. I appreciate you being here. I’m going to do a quick intro on you. We’ll read through a little bit about who you are and what you’re doing, and then we’ll chat. Trina serves as the CEO of Give an Hour, which is such an awesome organization. I can’t wait to hear more about it.

Trina brings a wealth of experience at the intersection of education, employment, and mental health. Her prior roles include the COO for community-based education and affordable housing organizations, director of a national emergency Military base closure event, and executive officer for a national corporate network supporting Military spouse employment. Dr. Clayeux holds a PhD in Leadership Studies and a Master’s in Public Administration. She’s a passionate advocate for the Military and veteran communities and draws on her experience as a Military and veteran spouse to foster meaningful change. Trina, welcome.

Thank you so much.

The Mission Behind Give An Hour

Thank you for joining us. I’m so excited to talk to you. I would love to chat with you and know a little bit about Give an Hour. Tell us about your organization.

Thank you again for your interest. We are going into our twentieth year, so we’ve been around for a minute. We were founded in 2005, and it was in direct response to 9/11. Our founder saw around the corner in 2005 not a lot of talk about mental health, and certainly in the Military at that time. It wasn’t talked about or discussed a lot. It was quite detrimental to avoid that conversation in order to keep your job and employment.

What she had envisioned was having a network of mental health professionals across the country, all licensed, who came together to give an hour of free mental health care to those Military veterans and their loved ones. It was unlimited and it was barrier-free. It was like getting connected to clinical care. What I love, too, was that it was looked at not as a 2 or 3-session and it was done and it included the family. It is understanding that anytime we’re talking about mental health, we’re always talking about a family unit. That’s involved. I know it’s hard to even envision now, but it was so unique.

Fast forward to about 2021, I became the CEO after our founder moved on into the federal sphere. We also saw there are not nearly enough mental health professionals and it’s not the solution for everyone. It’s not accessible for everyone, to be quite frank. We added peer support as another option for folks, which is people with lived experience helping other people, and more self-directed psychoeducation materials and things that people can do on their own. The idea is when you come to Give an Hour, you have a choice. It’s looking at an empowering way to set out on your own mental health journey and have the tools, resources, and support to get what you need out of it.

The spirit in which you guys have been organized and grown is so awesome. You guys are pioneers in terms of what you’ve done and where you’ve been. I can’t tell you having worked 25 years in the field as a therapist how many times I’ve heard people say things like, “It’s the way we’ve always done it.” I’m sitting and going, “It’s broken. That doesn’t make any sense to me.” As a therapist, I created a second practice called You Are Heard. U Are Heard is a virtual private practice. Knowingly, I was stepping into this world that other people hadn’t been in before. When COVID hit, I became the pro. Everyone was calling me and asking, “How do you do this?”

I admire your business’s ability to find ways and get people help in a world where the demand is up here and the providers are down here. Those families that are reading or the kids that are reading that haven’t gotten help, number one, this is a way for them to, and number two, I want them to know we’re aware of this discrepancy. People like your organization and yourself are doing things to solve that issue.

You’re right. It’s a collective. We all have roles to play. Mental health therapists have a role to play. People who are more of friends, family, and allies have a role of becoming more self-educated. If that were the case, then we could take some of the burden off of mental health professionals. Our network of active mental health professionals is about 4,000 across the country.

We also pour into our mental health professionals, realizing that there aren’t a lot of places and spaces for them to get what they need. We do peer support. Everything we offer customers, we offer our mental health professionals. We do peer support. We do continued education credit with no charge to them based on what they say they want and need in terms of training.

While we hope you can give an hour, we also realize it’s bigger than that. We need to keep, maintain, and retain the people that we have. We have this whole early career of people going into therapy who are coming out who feel unorg. Where is their community? They’re getting pushed out, not negatively, but you go out there and the demand is so high. If you don’t have a community and a support system, you can get lost in that. You can experience professional burnout and all the things that go with that. We’re hoping to be part of that solution as well.

That’s fantastic. I love that it’s being addressed. When I was doing my homework, I was watching one of your videos. You said, “How do we mobilize a nation during a mental health crisis?” It’s such a great question because there’s a portion of the population in this country that doesn’t even realize we’re in a mental health crisis until they’re in the midst of it, like a parent with a kid or themselves.

Recognizing that’s where we’re at is stressing all of the systems involved, the therapists all the way down, and what can we be doing about it. Tell me more about the peer-to-peer because, for years, we’ve always done it like, “If you have a problem, you go see a therapist and talk it through.” That’s how it goes. Tell me about the peer-to-peer.

Why Peer Support Is A Powerful Solution

Communities have been using the peer model for so long. It’s so powerful. It has a marketing problem because it’s been so challenging to explain to folks that I see it on the continuum of clinical care. It’s equal and different. It is equal in the impacts of it. The effects of it are so incredibly strong and powerful, and there’s a different need depending on what you’re looking for in your life.

If you don't have a community and a support system, you can get lost. Professional burnout happens fast when there is no place to turn to for help. Share on X

We follow what’s called a trauma-informed reciprocal model, which is to know that people with lived experience are great folks to have to be able to engage with other people with lived experience. You can learn from each other and you can support each other. We spend a lot of time in training to make sure that people with lived experience understand a good setting and good boundaries for them. It can be very exhausting.

We introduce psychoeducation materials that they can bring into a group setting so people can use these tools not to just hand them out but also to talk through them. There’s a lot of sharing. Sometimes, it’s being acknowledged. We’ve worked in populations that have experienced some unique things. We’ve worked in mass violence and mass shooting events. What we heard from people was therapists are great for a particular part of that, but to be around other people who’ve had a similar experience where you don’t have to explain everything. You’re part of a unique community. That’s been so healing. They would ask for things like, “Can we talk to this author who wrote a book about trauma?” We could bring the author and you could have fireside chats. It was this continued shared experience.

We run groups that are virtual peer support groups for a variety of things. It could be anything from victims and survivors of financial fraud, Military and veterans, and people with chronic diseases. It gives you a place to find your tribe. It’s so powerful. We do have clinicians who oversee it but they’re not the center of it. It’s a peer connection.

I love it. For years, I’ve been fascinated by the concept Alcoholics Anonymous offers. Their veterans bring their newbies in and they’ve had that shared experience. By giving that, those eventual newbies become veterans. It’s so awesome. We could all learn something from that in that the older models need to be separated. I’m the first one to say as a therapist that those people are very helpful more than therapists sometimes to be able to relate to them individually.

I love hearing you say that. We do have a percentage of people who are going to therapy that maybe could benefit rather from a peer model, which would also free up some of the higher-need therapeutic interventions that aren’t accessible. Mental Health America has it out that it’s 1 therapist for every 350 people. In some places I know, like in the Phoenix metro area, it’s 1 for every 660. These are big numbers.

Do you want me to blow your mind on college campuses?

What?

It’s 1 provider nationally on average for 1,700 kids. It’s terrible.

We can’t solve it by pumping out more therapists.

Correct.

That’s going to be an option. It’s affecting all places, like the workforce. Especially in the last few years, the workforce has been struggling. What I’m always fearful of is it’s going to be that boomerang effect where it’s like, “This is too hard. It’s too much,” and we’re going to go and spring back hard. Part of it is trying to equip people to say, “We can do things at the workplace that don’t involve a ton more investment.” I know some companies that are putting so much money into mental health, which is fantastic, but they’re not feeling the needle move. We’re still missing that human connection part. It’s so much embedded in that.

That’s why peer support and therapy is so effective. It is equipping people to be able to have human conversations that are productive, have tools built into them, feel genuine and empathetic, and acknowledge how people are experiencing life without becoming too pathologized and stuck, like just talking about anxiety, depression, and post-traumatic stress. We have to take action. We have to have movement there. I feel like that’s a part that hopefully we’re able to bring.

I love the concept. I work with a lot of college students. Part of what I’ve been doing is I have a model that brings people who are already on campus to work with students who are nonclinical and to be able to use those resources. Some are peer-to-peer with shared experiences. Some are individuals who are simply learning how to be a therapist. We don’t have enough therapists. We could sit all day long hiring more people or finding more people but eventually, we’re going to run out. You guys have jumped to the concept that we need to do it differently. Peer-to-peer is such a powerful move and such a great idea.

There are a few of the topics that we tend to go over on the show and I would love to get your point of view on some of these things. Self-care is one of those buzz phrases that are used a ton. I talk about it a lot with the students that I work with. I’m curious. When you think of self-care for people, what comes to mind?

This might be an era I’m in. I believe that it’s around tools and practices that make self-care work. The way that I feel like it’s been talked about is it tends to gravitate towards getting your nails done or moving away from people. It’s always some sort of isolating behavior. You take some time for yourself. I agree with all that. It’s always trying to find your own rhythm. For many communities, it’s leaning into people. That’s where they find self-care. It is with friends and family. I don’t know that we talk about that as much. To me, it’s an exclusion.

I’m a huge proponent of finding tools, routines, and practices that work. As a former college student, it is scheduling out the things that are important that bring you a sense of peace. I always think of movement. Some kind of movement is always good. It could be getting outside in the morning before classes start. We undervalue the importance of it until we start being in touch with our mind, our body, how we react to that, or what happens when we start grinding and we are not taking those moments.

What works for me doesn’t work for someone else. What works for them isn’t going to work for someone else. It doesn’t have to take up your whole day, but if you miss it, you miss out on the compounding effect of it. That’s why it’s the routine and the practice and prioritizing it but also realizing there’s not a magic thing.

Sometimes, we’re looking for something where we do it three times and we’re like, “I breathed and it didn’t work. That clearly is not going to work.” It’s the compounding effect. It’s the routine of it. It’s also the reinforcement of your commitment to something. There’s almost self-esteem that comes with practicing something over and over. You’ll never get good at anything if you don’t do it over and over.

I agree.

People are sometimes looking for something else or something that doesn’t require energy. It’s so much of the basics, like eating well, getting some exercise, and making sure you get some sleep and hydrating.

Those are the fundamentals.

People are like, “Those aren’t sexy. What else is there?”

Some companies put so much money into mental health but still fail to move the needle. What they are missing is human connection. Share on X

You said a lot of interesting things but one important thing stood out to me. You said leaning into being social. I find so many kids lean into these or gaming, or whatever it might be that removes them from actual contact. I’m thinking about that as you said that. Whether it be a spin class, a yoga class, a photography group, or a get-together, it doesn’t matter what they’re doing. The routine of it, like, “Every Tuesday night, we go do this,” is awesome. That’s one of the reasons why I like asking that question because everyone defines self-care a little differently. It’s also one of those things that is so important to our wellness.

I agree. I was at a training with emerging adults in the Military from ages 18 to 26. We were talking about that. That’s a sign from their baseline if they start withdrawing. They were like, “We’re always asking them to go out.” It was like, “What if you went in?” You’re trying to do another perspective. There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with gaming and all that, but if it’s taking up all of your space and you don’t have a lot of margins for other people and in-person interaction, then a tool is to put a timer on it or put some limits on it.

It was then like, “Go into where they are. Grab some food or go game with them,” because what you’re trying to do is make a human connection. What we tend to do when we’re upset, stressed, and all the things is withdraw. I do the same. I have to force myself. I was like, “I’ll get it together and then I’ll lean back in on people,” instead of, “If I’m feeling this way, I should lean into people and I bet I will feel better faster.”

Understanding Rising Suicide Rates Among Youth

It’s such an interesting concept. The instinct, at least for younger people, is to not, but I like how you said that. That’s certainly a big one for young people. Another big one is the statistics for mental health are not great. Especially for our younger population, let’s say high school and college-aged, the suicide rate has climbed to number two in terms of cause of death. To give our audience a sense, a couple of years ago, it was twelve. It has clearly risen. It’s a topic nobody likes to talk about, but unfortunately, it’s right there in our faces often. I’m curious. As you listen to the stats moving in the wrong direction, what are your thoughts as to why they might be?

I’ll go back to more of what I hear because I do a lot of reading of that. Any of these statistics are always troubling when they’re trending in a direction. They’ve been encompassing more demographics of young people where we’re seeing Black and Brown young people were more protected from this and we’re seeing an uptick. There’s so much to pay attention to.

A lot of where our focus is is on suicide protection. How do you get more people with eyes and ears on colleagues, friends, and people they’re around and then notice the signs or notice when people are withdrawing, when they seem agitated, when their personality changes, and things like that, and then know how to say it? It’s not what to say but how to say and direct it. Especially in something like that where you need to ask direct questions, much of it is going against the stream of like, “What if I say something I’m not supposed to say?” It’s like, “We need you to say something and acknowledge.”

We do a lot of practicing to get people more comfortable with that conversation. There’s no script or anything, but more of some points of like, “Here’s where you lean in. Here’s a persistent push to go a little bit further. Don’t let somebody say, “I’m fine,” and then go, “Okay,” and move on. Go ahead and do some persistence.

I was mentioning working with the Military. The rates there been high for active duty as well. It has gone in that direction. We’re in this emerging adult. One of the things I find so fascinating is that years ago, I felt like this emerging adult was part of adult. That could’ve been my naivety. It was like, “You’re not a kid but you’re not an adult-adult. It feels like it’s been carved a little deeper over the last couple of years for all the reasons that we know where the needs are different but unique. This is a group that wants you to understand them and isn’t accepting to get some generalized help. They want us as people in their lives to understand what’s happening.

I meet more people who have been impacted in some form or fashion by suicide. People are alarmed. We’re alarmed by it, but it is also remembering there’s so much before. There’s so much space there before that and the things that happened over time before we even get to that conversation. I feel like empowering people from all walks of life to be able to recognize the signs, say what needs to be said, ask questions, lean in, and know how to get people help is part of the strategy. It’s not the whole part. There’s so much before that that we’re seeing in everybody’s day-to-day life. There is a lot of noise.

No doubt. Mental health first aid is something that comes to mind. It’s been taught a lot in both high school and college campuses to get people to understand what those signs are. I love that phrase, suicide protection. I haven’t heard that before. I’m going to reuse that. Hopefully, that’s okay.

It’s not mine. There’s a good distinction because it feels like we’re all part of something in protection.

We want a happy and healthy workplace with happy and healthy people. This requires effort and the right level setting of expectations. Share on X

It’s wise to say it that way. It’s an unfortunate part of the trend but it is part of the trend. We need to acknowledge that and then look at the things that we can do. There’s a lot that goes on before a person takes their own life. Honestly, as I talk to my colleagues frequently, it’s pretty rare that I talk to someone who isn’t around it. It has become more pervasive and out there.

It’s part of the landscape and us looking at what are those things we’re able to do to help protect those individuals that might be sliding down that slope. Your words were wise and important for young people to absorb. One of the big flaws that a lot of young people walk around thinking is, “Nobody will understand,” and yet there are a lot of people out there who understand.

I also feel like people want to connect with other people. You want to lean in. If I knew that somebody I didn’t even know was suffering in some way, I wouldn’t even hesitate. It would be a natural lean-in. We’re all built that way. What I do find though is the fear of saying the wrong thing, messing it up, or feeling uncomfortable. That’s part of what we’re trying to break through. This generation is going to be the one to do it. I believe they’re so primed, so leaned in, and so interested.

Our model has always been listening to what people want and need, helping them get what they want and need, and then finding out if it is working or helping. If not, we’re going to keep iterating and keep supporting. The more you listen to folks and you’re not trying to give them something they’re not asking for, they trust you for sure, but they see that you’re invested. They’re then more willing to share with you the real intricacies of how they’re thinking, how they’re relating to information, and how they’re making decisions.

A lot of what we try to do is make sure that people get to be in the space that they’re at but add to it. We talk a lot about drinking. Young people mostly don’t have a defined relationship with alcohol or drugs. They’re still figuring that out. How do you preserve where they’re at? You can add options like, “Did you ever think that you could do a two-and-done instead of full abstinence?” which isn’t always realistic to talk about.

Maybe a tool in there is mindful drinking where you have a plan for that evening before you even leave. Are you going to do two and you’re going to get an Uber, and you’re going to go home by 10:00 so you can get steady? It’s things like that. We see with young people that if you engage in the conversation and they’re contributing to it, they are more receptive to go, “I could add that. I might not do it, but now I have 4 things that I’ll do instead of 3.”

I like how you said that. I had someone ask me many years ago, “How do you work with teenagers? They don’t talk to me,” or something like that. I said, “The premise of my style is non-judgment.” Kids walk into my office and I give them the benefit of the doubt right off the bat, and they know that. They begin to trust me as a result of that and they’re able to work with me. That’s what you’re talking about. It’s the non-judgment piece.

Instead of us as adults telling them, “You have to do this,” let’s meet them where they are. It’s like, “Let’s figure this out together.” I also love what you said earlier. I do agree with you. With this generation, as ugly as the statistics are, the upside is that they are going to be way more open and have been way more open about mental health and some of the solutions that are out there and helping kids. I agree with you on that one.

Building A Culture Of Mental Health Awareness

What’s interesting about that, too, is that there is going to be convergence. All these social institutions and emerging adults are trying to do their part and realizing that it has to be a together thing. Your business is not going to take care of all your mental health needs. The sooner you come up with that, probably the happier you’re going to be. You have a responsibility to yourself to lean into some of these practices and tools, educate yourself, and do your part.

There’s the middle part, which is where we all need to grab things that are available or not available in a lot of ways. It’s that, “Now is a time that I do need a mental health professional. Now is a time when I need a peer supporter. Do I need that friend I can ugly cry with?” You have to start pulling things into your life. That becomes some of the empowerment.

When I was coming up, you went where other people pushed you. It was like, “You need a therapist,” or, “You need this.” You’re always waiting for something else to happen as you are going. There’s a triggering event that pushes you on it rather than you saying, “This is a time where I’m recognizing that I need additional help or I need some support, or I need to ask a question.”

This, to me, is some of the most exciting work, which is how you help equip emerging adults or young adults and how you help equip a business, an industry, and a workplace to bring these things together so everyone has roles and responsibilities but you’re all working towards the same thing. We want a happy, healthy workplace. We want to be happy, healthy people, hopefully, but it does require effort and a level-setting of expectations too.

You made me think in terms of work. People are asking about vision, dental, and whatnot. It’s another thing that an adult does in terms of maintenance of self. If it’s time to see a therapist, go see a therapist. If it’s time to do something else, then go do something else. Those are the choices that people make. You’re either maintaining yourself or you’re not. I like that last thought of working together to get to a common place of happiness. Let’s face it. We all want to be happy in life. Let me ask you one last question. Can I put you on the spot for a second?

Okay.

Encouraging Open Conversations About Mental Health

I created this show so that we could have open dialogue, which we’ve had here. I’m so thankful we’ve had it with you Trina. To keep the conversation moving forward, I generally ask people to nominate a friend, a coworker, or a relative, someone who you think would be great for me to interview next. Any thoughts in terms of a person who would be good to have on the show?

I do. I have a colleague that I’ve worked with, Jenn Graham, who is the CEO of Inclusivv. This is so in line. They do work around civil discourse and topics such as mental health. It is teaching people to have productive, balanced, and curious conversations in the workplace and elsewhere. It is more of a movement of civility around mental health. She’s a ball of joy, too.

Thank you for the nomination. I’ll get her information from you offline. I’ll look to get in touch with her and have her on the show at some point soon. More importantly, thank you for your time and spending it with us and giving us your perspective on mental health and wellness.

Thank you. I appreciate it. I enjoyed talking with you.

I did as well. Have a great day.

Thank you.

Take care.

Important Links

About Dr. Trina Clayeux

Dr. Trina Clayeux brings a wealth of executive experience in workforce development and mental health to her role as CEO of Give an Hour. With a proven history of visionary leadership and innovation, she has made significant contributions in enhancing access and the delivery of vital services within her field.

Her career spans various impactful roles, including tenure as Chief Operations Officer for social impact organizations, director and assistant dean for community college systems, and multistate coordination of a Department of Defense base realignment event and a national corporate network for military spouse employment. Having herself been a military and veteran spouse for many years, she possesses an innate understanding of the distinctive challenges and opportunities inherent in this community, making her a dedicated advocate for their personal and professional growth.

Dr. Clayeux holds a Ph.D. in Leadership Studies from Gonzaga University, a Master of Public Administration from Portland State University, and multiple certifications that underscore her commitment to excellence in her field. She has received recognition from esteemed organizations such as the National Association of Development Boards for her innovative approaches and the Sailing Award for leadership excellence.

Moreover, Dr. Clayeux’s fervent dedication to knowledge sharing and catalyzing positive change has led her to present at numerous state and national conferences. Her presentations have covered topics that include optimizing employer and employee performance through person-centric design, to cultivating trauma-informed workplaces, and implementing contextual mental health practices that foster social connections and high-performance outcomes.

In her present role at Give an Hour, Dr. Clayeux continues to harness her executive acumen, profound expertise, and unyielding commitment to enhancing lives, grounded in the belief that each one of us can contribute to the betterment of mental health, for life. Most recently Dr. Clayeux is leading the way with the mental health ‘Pod Squad’, a leadership group with the Stand Together Foundation; as well as developing the Veteran Workforce Toolkit in Partnership with The University of Phoenix.

In her downtime, Trina enjoys athletic activities and completed a full Ironman, two half Ironman’s and hundreds of running events. She remains active with her husband, a retired veteran of 26 years, and two children.

On Demand Coaching + Emotional Support

Tag Archives: Suicide Prevention

Shattered Silence: A Filmmaker’s Courageous Mission For Mental Wellness With Jake Miskin

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Listen to the podcast here

Shattered Silence: A Filmmaker’s Courageous Mission For Mental Wellness With Jake Miskin

Normalizing Mental Health Conversations Through The Power Of Storytelling

Personal Inspiration & The Avoidance Of “Why” In Grief

The Negative Impact Of The “Chase” & Social Media On Mental Health

Sports As A Vehicle For Mental Health Dialogue

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About Jake Miskin

Youth Mental Health: Fostering Human Connection In Schools With Greg Hudnall Jr. Of Hope Squad

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Youth Mental Health: Fostering Human Connection In Schools With Greg Hudnall Jr. Of Hope Squad

From Corporate To Compassion: The Birth Of Hope Squad

Peer Power: Normalizing Mental Health In Schools

Youth Mental Health Crisis: Unveiling The Stark Statistics

Digital Disconnect: Social Media’s Impact On Youth Wellbeing

Empowering Emotions: Preparing Teens For College Transition

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About Greg Hudnall Jr.

The Shoulder Check Foundation Story: On Loss, Inspiration, And Making Contact With Rob Thorsen

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The Shoulder Check Foundation Story: On Loss, Inspiration, And Making Contact With Rob Thorsen

Kicking Off The Conversation: Rob Thorsen & The Heart Of Shoulder Check

Selling Kindness: How Shoulder Check Is Shifting Mental Health Awareness

Reaching Out Before It’s Too Late: Making Contact & Building Connections

Beyond Words: Emojis, Vulnerability, And Teens Talking It Out

Reflections Vs. Regrets: Learning From Loss & Lifting Each Other Up

The Ripple Effect: How Kindness Touches More Lives Than We Know

Storytelling For Change: Filmmaker Jake Miskin & Shattered Ice

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About Rob Thorsen

Breaking Mental Health Barriers With Dr. Trina Clayeux

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Listen to the podcast here

Breaking Mental Health Barriers With Dr. Trina Clayeux

The Mission Behind Give An Hour

Why Peer Support Is A Powerful Solution

Understanding Rising Suicide Rates Among Youth

Building A Culture Of Mental Health Awareness

Encouraging Open Conversations About Mental Health

Important Links

About Dr. Trina Clayeux